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 Covering of a male

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Kim



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PostSubject: Covering of a male   Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:13 pm

I was listening to this Christian radio show and the guy said that every woman single or married needed the "covering" of a male to protect her. He was talking especially from demon attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:18 pm

Did he give any scriptural basis for this standpoint? He could not have.
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Kim



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:41 pm

Just said to go back to the manual, obviously the Bible
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:33 pm

I have yet to read a verse that gives this instruction. I know that with the institutionalisation of Christianity it has been introduced and accepted as Biblical, but I have never found sound Scriptural backing for this.
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HeavenBound



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:43 pm

No verse comes to mind to back this concept but it is taught. Time for some research.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:34 pm

Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible says the following on the words of Jesus Himself in Mat 23:10 “Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Quote :
Neither be ye called masters - Καθηγηται, leaders. God is in all these respects jealous of his honor. To him alone it belongs to guide and lead his Church, as well as to govern and defend it. Jesus is the sole teacher of righteousness. It is he alone, (who is the word, light, and eternal truth), that can illuminate every created mind; and who, as Savior and Redeemer, speaks to every heart by his Spirit.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:04 pm

Click here for an interesting article on this subject......

Quote :
The following is the passage from which the concept of "spiritual covering," as well as several other assertions made by Discipleship proponents, is extrapolated. Since it will be a basis for much of this discussion, it has been set in verse format for easier reference. Also, I have added some explanations which appear in italics and parentheses, to assist in understanding the true import of these verses.

First Corinthians 11:2-16:
2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything, and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the Head of every man, and the man (husband) is the head of a (singular) woman (wife), and God is the Head of Christ.
4 Every MAN who has something on his Head (Christ) while praying or prophesying, disgraces his Head (Christ).
5 But every woman who has her head uncovered (not under the authority of her husband) while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head (her husband); for she is one and the same with her whose head is shaved (woman taken captive from vanquished enemies and forced against her will to become an Israelite's wife).
6 For if a woman does not cover her head (allow the authority of her husband to cover and protect her from the spiritual deception of the fallen angels), let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
7 For a man ought NOT to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman (wife) is the glory of man (husband).
8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
10 Therefore the woman ought to have authority on her head, because of the (fallen) angels.
11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
12 For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.
13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with head uncovered?
14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair (type for "covering"), it is a dishonor to him,
15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for A COVERING (a protection).
16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

Now I don't want to be unkind, but in my opinion a person must be totally brainwashed to read this text and in all sincerity and earnestness conclude it says what Shepherdship proponents and adherents assert that it says. Indeed, this text has been used as a premise for a number of pretty silly and bizarre notions, ranging from the role of women in the church all the way to the assertion that God is saying here that women are supposed to wear little doilies on their heads when they attend church. So let's examine this passage, and see what it really says and what it does not say.............................
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Kim



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:02 pm

Says in the article....

QUOTE: "Though we are certainly to avail ourselves of the ministry God disseminates through Fivefold ministers, and though we are to maintain a compliant and cooperative attitude toward them, and treat them with due honor and respect, no mere human is ever the "head" or "spiritual covering" of any other man, especially; or woman, for that matter, because "spiritual covering" exists and is effectual only in the relationship of the husband to his own WIFE — no other woman. In other words, even a Fivefold minister — apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher — is the spiritual "head" of only ONE woman on this planet — his own WIFE (if he is married)! That, my friend, is it! FURTHERMORE, a Fivefold minister is the spiritual "head" of absolutely NO MAN! I cannot state it any more succinctly or directly than that."

A wife needs a spiritual covering? Is she the only one to have this thing.. like he is a mediator between her and God? Why? Does she become inferior because now a wife?
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:42 pm

Hmm...

This has to be looked at... a wife's covering.... he expands verse 6 like this...
Quote :
6 For if a woman does not cover her head (allow the authority of her husband to cover and protect her from the spiritual deception of the fallen angels
The logic in the whole argument..... if verse 6 is correctly interpreted ....... is that a woman has no need of this UNTIL married!

Headship is about domestic government... not spiritual government! Headship is for order in the home... one husband is ultimately responsible for one wife and family. I cannot see how this is related to spiritual headship... like a mediator between her and God... that violates Mat 23:10 posted earlier...
Quote :
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Further on he says.... in which he offers dispute to the claim that ALL women need this covering.... he says no to that.... I believe it is no to all women... married or not
Quote :
Again, I must emphasize that the subject of this passage clearly is NOT Governmental Authority in the Church. Rather, the Divine dissertation is directed specifically to the matter of Domestic authority; that is, authority in the family unit. That is made evident in verse three, where the Apostle says: "But I want you to understand that Christ is the Head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the Head of Christ." As I have already pointed out, another way to characterize the subject of this passage, which the highlighted portions bring out, is: spiritual "headship." However, the spiritual headship that is being discussed here, contrary to the assertions made by many, is not some sort of "universal" ascendancy, in practice and attitude, of men over women; nor does it speak to any ilk of Governmental Authority within the "ranks" of the Church. Rather, the exclusive focus of this passage is "Domestic Authority," which is the order of authority within the FAMILY structure, in human households. And in the household, within the structure of the family unit, there is only one head — the husband; not some "spiritual" leader; not any other person. The husband is the unequivocal head in his OWN house, and not in any other.

Moreover, the misinterpretation and misapplication of the import of this passage to the specter of general interrelations between men and women itself is the basis for one aspect of error inherent in the Discipleship doctrines that is of no small consequence. Specifically, the more radical Discipleship proponents have interpolated these verses to mean that all women, married or unmarried, are supposed to be "submitted" and subservient to all men, and especially to the "spiritual leaders" of their church or group
.

I see a conflict in his argument with the expansion of verse 6. I don't see how the covering over a wife can be spiritual in the sense of his being a mediator between her and God... just headship in terms of domestic matters... nothing else... one man having authority and responsibility over one household...his own... made accountable to God for how he uses this authority... not domination but sacrificial... to love her like Christ loved the Church as he leads in domestic affairs. I think that headship is given for protection because a wife becomes a mother and is vulnerable when pregnant and giving herself to raising and nurturing children. He needs to be held accountable as provider and protector... (not as a spiritual mediator)

I want to seek more clarity on that verse.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:46 am

He does say later in the article....

Quote :
You see, when taken to their fullest extent, what these false teachings culminate in, is an infringement upon the Biblical fact of ultimate accountability to God, which is to say that in the end everyone is accountable to God, and to God alone, for his conduct and for the substance of the life he or she lived. Ultimately, it is to an Almighty and All-Knowing God that we must give account for the totality of our lives. Ultimately, each believer is accountable only to the authority of God, and not to any supposed "spiritual authority" of men.

This Truth and its veracity is unequivocally and wholly supported by the preponderance of Scripture, and proof-texts corroborating this absolute fact are so numerous that to quote them all would require a separate volume of its own. But, there is one passage that states it about as directly and succinctly as it can be stated, which is, Romans 14:12: "So then EACH OF US shall GIVE ACCOUNT of HIMSELF to GOD."
So wives and "spiritual" covering? All a bit contradictory. Perhaps his main concern is for the Body of Christ in general and he does not see the anomaly created for wives.

I will need further convincing that a husband has "spiritual" authority over a wife. She needs no additional mediator.... she has Jesus Christ to answer to directly. I think she is to submit to his leadership in the domestic situation... 2 heads will just become 2 butt-heads... Very Happy But the husband is answerable to God for how he uses or abuses this leadership... if he dishonours his wife the Lord stops answering his prayers.
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HeavenBound



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:10 am

Chuck Snyder seems to have put it together well.

He says: Thanks for the note about your wife who is resisting your spiritual leadership. I think maybe you have been mis-taught about what the "head" or "leader" of a family means. Let me give you a big picture and see what you think. The church has been giving out a lot of false information over the past 2,000 years or so concerning what submission and headship means. Most of us have been taught that submission is something a wife does, and leadership or headship is what the husband does. The problem is that Ephesians 5:21 says men submit. It talks about mutual submission under God ... equality ... teamwork. Then, Ephesians 5:22 says, "wives submit," but the context is now a discussion about how a wife feels loved and how a husband feels loved and the role in which they would be the happiest.

I don't think the church is taking a close enough look at the story in Matthew 20:20-28 when the mother of James and John came up to the Lord and asked Him if her kids could sit up front with Him when He came into His kingdom. I'm sure He was polite to her because that's what moms do -- look out for their children -- but later He took His disciples and followers aside and said in effect, "that's what the kings do, that's what the Gentiles do, that's what the Romans do ... have to be up front ... in charge ... the head. If you want to be the head of a family, head of a church, head of a business, head of a mission, then become a servant. And if you want to become the greatest leader in the world, then become the greatest servant in the world." He then referred to Himself, saying that He was the greatest among them, but He had come to wash feet and die. Then Ephesians 5 takes up the story and says, "as a husband is to do for his wife and family."


More here: http://chucksnyder.org/askchuck/0063.htm
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Kim



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:21 am

Gotta love this part! Very Happy

One time, we heard Howard Hendricks say that when we see a witchy wife, we should never say, "what's wrong with her?" We should say, "what's wrong with him?" She is his radiance, his glory. She is reflecting back to him what she is receiving.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:46 pm

Dr. Howard Hendricks is a Master Teacher. I have his book "The Seven Laws of the Teacher" He teaches how to teach... amongst other things. Interesting that he mentions him. He mentored Dr Bruce Wilkinson who wrote "The Seven Laws of the Learner", "The Prayer of Jabez"... and many more.

For years I have seen how wives reflect what is going on in the marriage. Recently I kept seeing a woman worn out and beat ... always quiet and uncomfortable ... and so unhappy looking .... as though on a treadmill...... doing her duties.... but I could see a genuinely nice person hidden there......and as I watched I started picking up the husband's attitudes.... easily into strife and inconsiderate..... but quick to preach.... I felt such pity for her. I could tell that he thought of himself as great value to have around...... I thought that even in this diminished state she had more to offer...
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Allegra



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:33 pm

Need to see if is power crazy before marry him. Seems to be a lot on his side to beat you up with even if not right. is still there being misunderstood and used. Like it that God doesn't answer his prayers if husband dishonours wife. Like was said: domination is not like Jesus. It is carnal.
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HeavenBound



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:09 pm

Dustin Hoffman said he had gained a new understanding about what women have to put up with after playing a woman in Tootsie.
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Kim



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:25 pm

Googled, Found http://www.travelin-tigers.com/zhs/rpttoot.htm 3 movies like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:18 pm

I could take a guess at a number of the challenges Dustin Hoffman noticed in taking on the character of a female in that movie:

Not valued as worth anything much if not convincing eye-candy

Frequent sexual harrassment that must always be pleasantly accepted as complimentary..... means you are eye-candy, doesn't it? That she has a heart and mind along with it all is irrelevant.

Lot of pressure to prove herself in the market place... more than needed by a male in the same position. May earn the job fairly but will not be given the same honour.

All that make-up business! Got to work hard at this female thing every morning and then get laughed at for it.......... and scorned as unfeminine if don't.

High heels... did he wear high heels?

Dress so that she convinces she is worth undressing...

Sorry..... had enough of seeing barely dressed females around fully dressed males. When you really think about it it is all rather pathetic.
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Newborn



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:48 am

This movie I see. Is funny. Good he see what happen.
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Kim



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PostSubject: Re: Covering of a male   Sat May 01, 2010 9:45 am

Taken like that your right. It is pathetic.
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