Posts : 172
Join date : 2009-11-08
|Subject: Numerous Messiahs? Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:46 pm|| |
Webster defines ‘M’essiah as:
"1. The anticipated deliverer and king of the Jews. 2. Jesus Christ. 3. messiah, a liberator and deliverer."
The main premise here is that Jesus is nobody really special... just another "messiah" amidst many others. By innuendo they believe they establish Him as just another mythological figure who has those who need to be brain-washed believing nonsense that was just a repeat of previous religions. The flaws in this "reasoning" will open up as we study the movie. The idea is also put forward that the Bible is based on astrological principles taken from other earlier religions.
It is going to take a tremendous amount of time and effort to analyse all the wild statements just thrown out as fact in the movie.... so I thought it would be interesting to take the transcript piece by piece and look at it... each as a new thread
Transcript from the movie...
- Quote :
- The fact of the matter is there are numerous saviors, from different periods, from all over the world, which subscribe to these general characteristics. The question remains: why these attributes, why the virgin birth on December 25th, why dead for three days and the inevitable resurrection, why 12 disciples or followers? [M] To find out, let's examine the most recent of the solar messiahs.
The transcript is found on the Zeitgeist site here:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
As per instruction....
- Quote :
- [S#] = Source - [M] = *More information - [D] = Debate Issues
[S#] links will direct you to the source. Use the Browser's "Back Button"to return.
[M] and [D] links will open up in a new window. (turn off "pop-up blocker" if enabled)
Please note the transcript is not verbatim... and lecture transcripts are omitted. But the essence is posted by them for us to read.
Last edited by QUO VADIS? on Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
Posts : 172
Join date : 2009-11-08
|Subject: Horus Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:00 pm|| |
Horus a messiah?
- Quote :
- In other words, the early civilizations did not just follow the sun and stars, they personified them with elaborate myths involving their movements and relationships. [S5] [M] The sun, with its life-giving and -saving qualities was personified as a representative of the unseen creator or god...[M]"God's Sun,"[M] the light of the world, the savior of human kind.[S6] Likewise, the 12 constellations represented places of travel for God's Sun and were identified by names, usually representing elements of nature that happened during that period of time.For example, Aquarius, the water bearer, who brings the Spring rains.[S7] [M] [D]
This is Horus.[M] He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC [S8] [D]. He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky. [S9] [S10] [M] From the ancient hieroglyphics in Egypt, we know much about this solar messiah. For instance, Horus, being the sun, or the light, had an enemy known as Set and Set [D] was the personification of the darkness or night .[M] [S11] And, metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set - while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld. [S12] [S13] It is important to note that "dark vs. light" or "good vs. evil" is one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and is still expressed on many levels to this day.
Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th [S14] [S15] of the virgin Isis-Meri.[S16] [S17] [S18] [D] [M] His birth was accompanied by a star in the east [S19], which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior [M] [S20] [S21] At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 [S22] [S23] he was baptized by a figure known as Anup [M] and thus began his ministry[S24] [M]. Horus had 12 disciples[S25] he traveled about with, performing miracles[S26] [S27]such as healing the sick[S28] and walking on water[S29]. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others[S30] [S31]. After being betrayed by Typhon[S32], Horus was crucified[S33] [S34], buried for 3 days[S35], and thus, resurrected.[S36] [S37] [M].
These attributes of Horus, whether original or not, seem to permeate in many cultures of the world, for many other gods are found to have the same general mythological structure.
Pastor Doug Hamp has earned his Master's degree in the Hebrew Bible. Studied at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem for 3 years where he studied both modern and Biblical Hebrew, Biblical Aramaic and other ancient languages - as well as the Ancient Texts and the Archaeology of the Bible. I have relied heavily on his scholarly response to the movie when trying to establish the veracity of the Zeitgeist fundaments. No such veracity was found. Lies permeate this movie .... with innuendo being its continuing fundament.the light of the world, the savior of human kind
An obvious comparison to Jesus Christ... the true Messiah... Who is the Saviour of humankind... and the Light of the world. Their bibliographic reference is an interpretation and not a statement of fact. [Acharya S.: Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004. Page 60-85 [Chaper III: "The Sun God"] They rely heavily on this "source" but it is a written opinion... her interpretation.... taken from other interpretations..... with no reference to primary sources such as hieroglyphics etc.... and so establishes no fact. She is, however, being quoted as though she establishes fact, and by those not willing to investigate... being believed as such. For example, Aquarius, the water bearer, who brings the Spring rains.[S7] [M] [D]
This is Horus.[M] He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC. He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky. [S9] [S10] [M]
..... Established Academic opinion accepts that Egyptian mythology believed Horus was a sun god and not the actual sun. His left eye represented the moon and his right eye the sun.born on December 25th
... They mention this date for everyone of these "messiahs" and make a big deal of it. But wasted effort... Jesus was not born on the 25th December. This date has just been used to celebrate His birth. We believe He was born somewhere in September or early October... but no exact date is known... so have just continued tradition on the 25th December as a recognised date to celebrate His birth. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it state that He was born on 25th December.virgin Isis-Meri
Glen Miller states: One ancient Egyptian relief depicts this conception by showing his mother Isis in a falcon form, hovering over an erect phalus of a dead and prone Osirus in the Underworld and that is how she became pregnant.... weird..... but very different to a Virgin Birth. A very different concept to what we have in the Bible.a star in the east
No primary sources listed with this claim.three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior
The Christian Scriptural text says "magi" and does not stipulate how many. Three has been merely a depiction of their presence at His birth and it became traditional to do this. Claiming that these "messiahs" all had 3 kings at their birth is therefore common to them but not to Jesus Christ. As Christians the number 3 is unimportant to us.At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, at the age of 30 he was baptized
No pre-New Testament primary source claims this... not even generally or vaguely..... only after the New Testament... so copying the NT.Horus had 12 disciples
No reference in any primary sources for this. There is mention of 4 disciples ... and in another place reference to 16 human followers... The number 12 is not found anywhere in a primary source. He had followers... but not 12. Movie makes a big deal about this..... and unfounded.performing miracles such as healing the sick
Horus supposedly helped the newly dead into the afterlife... his role was funerary... different to healing them. This claim is not supported at all in any primary source documentation.walking on water
No pre-NT primary sources that state this... so copying the New Testament. The idea of the Egyptian gods was always an idea that was in flux. When one group would conquer another and the politcal landscape would change then there would be a syncretism of their different gods.... and thus would a "new god" be created.The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God,
Which pre-New Testament primary sources attribute these names to Horus? None.After being betrayed by Typhon
Which pre-New Testament primary source states this? None.Horus was crucified buried for 3 days and thus, resurrected.
Which pre-New Testament primary source states this? None.